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	<title>Comments on: Darwin Turns 200</title>
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	<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/</link>
	<description>Just another Lib.byu.edu weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-746</guid>
		<description>Here is a thesis paper written by a grad student for the Dept. of English.  This paper reviews the opinions on evolution of people within the LDS church as well as the associated assumptions of such a discussion.  It gets good around page 38.

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/ETD/image/etd2411.pdf

Or go the HBLL, site search, type &quot;organic evolution&quot;

Title: MORMON RHETORIC AND THE THEORY OF ORGANIC EVOLUTION</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a thesis paper written by a grad student for the Dept. of English.  This paper reviews the opinions on evolution of people within the LDS church as well as the associated assumptions of such a discussion.  It gets good around page 38.</p>
<p><a href="http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/ETD/image/etd2411.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/ETD/image/etd2411.pdf</a></p>
<p>Or go the HBLL, site search, type &#8220;organic evolution&#8221;</p>
<p>Title: MORMON RHETORIC AND THE THEORY OF ORGANIC EVOLUTION</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Barney</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-739</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-739</guid>
		<description>edit:  first paragraph

I am not trying to call anyone shallow but after rereading I find that I cannot edit it out.  Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>edit:  first paragraph</p>
<p>I am not trying to call anyone shallow but after rereading I find that I cannot edit it out.  Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Barney</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-738</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-738</guid>
		<description>To assume that LDS doctrine is based on a single, unreferenced, quote and that by simply throwing names around you can intimidate others from seeking greater light and knowledge, is quite shallow.  I will not immediately assume this was anyone’s intent but I warn, this is a pointless battle.  

For a long time zealous religionists and intellectual scientists have been at odds.  Not because either was right or wrong but because of the rhetoric.  To quote Darwin and imply that because he had lost his faith in a false religion is evidence that his theories are incompatible with LDS beliefs of the creation is not a well thought out argument.  Darwin was suffering under the burden of the literal translation of the Bible, blind faith in the declarations of the church, a vengeful God who appeared to have no mercy and the threat of hell for himself and his friends because they did not buy into it.  I too, do not believe that these maxims apply to true religion and would not long remain in a faith that required them of me?  

There are indeed many scientists that do not believe in the existence of a supreme being but there are even more that do, and many who do, also believe the concept of Biological Evolution to be valid.  On the flip side, there are many religionists that believe the world is flat.  I suppose one could easily be convinced since they base this belief on the literal reading of the Bible.  

Since the present angst seems to be against the celebration of a great man’s life work, and supposing that it is contrary to the doctrine of the Church, let me quote the first presidency of 1909.  

“The Lord must reveal Himself, or remain unrevealed; and the same is true of the facts relating to the origin of Adam&#039;s race--God alone can reveal them. Some of these facts, however, are already known, and what has been made known it is our duty to receive and retain.”
Improvement Era Vol. 8, November 1909, No. 1.

That quote is most readily available in the BYU Evolution Packet.  Please read the packet.  You may come away from it realizing that the Church has no doctrinal position on the idea of Biological Evolution.  I came away realizing that revelation is in store for all those who seek it, no matter what topic.  As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, it is our duty to increase in knowledge and rely on the Spirit to teach us truth.  We worship our God and defend his teachings on a basis of truth, not rhetoric.  The truth is, many concepts that were presented by Darwin have been verified and can be observed.  Thus, it is our duty to receive and retain.

This topic is a great topic for discussion because there is a lot of clarity to be gained on both sides.  This is not about shutting up the other side.  This is about learning something and improving our understanding by evaluating the data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To assume that LDS doctrine is based on a single, unreferenced, quote and that by simply throwing names around you can intimidate others from seeking greater light and knowledge, is quite shallow.  I will not immediately assume this was anyone’s intent but I warn, this is a pointless battle.  </p>
<p>For a long time zealous religionists and intellectual scientists have been at odds.  Not because either was right or wrong but because of the rhetoric.  To quote Darwin and imply that because he had lost his faith in a false religion is evidence that his theories are incompatible with LDS beliefs of the creation is not a well thought out argument.  Darwin was suffering under the burden of the literal translation of the Bible, blind faith in the declarations of the church, a vengeful God who appeared to have no mercy and the threat of hell for himself and his friends because they did not buy into it.  I too, do not believe that these maxims apply to true religion and would not long remain in a faith that required them of me?  </p>
<p>There are indeed many scientists that do not believe in the existence of a supreme being but there are even more that do, and many who do, also believe the concept of Biological Evolution to be valid.  On the flip side, there are many religionists that believe the world is flat.  I suppose one could easily be convinced since they base this belief on the literal reading of the Bible.  </p>
<p>Since the present angst seems to be against the celebration of a great man’s life work, and supposing that it is contrary to the doctrine of the Church, let me quote the first presidency of 1909.  </p>
<p>“The Lord must reveal Himself, or remain unrevealed; and the same is true of the facts relating to the origin of Adam&#8217;s race&#8211;God alone can reveal them. Some of these facts, however, are already known, and what has been made known it is our duty to receive and retain.”<br />
Improvement Era Vol. 8, November 1909, No. 1.</p>
<p>That quote is most readily available in the BYU Evolution Packet.  Please read the packet.  You may come away from it realizing that the Church has no doctrinal position on the idea of Biological Evolution.  I came away realizing that revelation is in store for all those who seek it, no matter what topic.  As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, it is our duty to increase in knowledge and rely on the Spirit to teach us truth.  We worship our God and defend his teachings on a basis of truth, not rhetoric.  The truth is, many concepts that were presented by Darwin have been verified and can be observed.  Thus, it is our duty to receive and retain.</p>
<p>This topic is a great topic for discussion because there is a lot of clarity to be gained on both sides.  This is not about shutting up the other side.  This is about learning something and improving our understanding by evaluating the data.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-737</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 00:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-737</guid>
		<description>Chad - It seems to me that your statements on evolution are completely logical, as evidenced by no further comments to this discussion.  Evolution is easily recognized as a pattern found in nature and natural selection is just as obvious as the method by which evolution occurs.

Brad W. - if one were to look for comments by church leaders on evolution, they&#039;d be able to find them both for and against.  Don&#039;t you think that if the comment you posted by Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith were true doctrine, the church would have an official position against evolution?  Yet, the church has no official position on evolution.  There have been official statements though that: &quot;we were created in the image of God.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad &#8211; It seems to me that your statements on evolution are completely logical, as evidenced by no further comments to this discussion.  Evolution is easily recognized as a pattern found in nature and natural selection is just as obvious as the method by which evolution occurs.</p>
<p>Brad W. &#8211; if one were to look for comments by church leaders on evolution, they&#8217;d be able to find them both for and against.  Don&#8217;t you think that if the comment you posted by Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith were true doctrine, the church would have an official position against evolution?  Yet, the church has no official position on evolution.  There have been official statements though that: &#8220;we were created in the image of God.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Heath</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-736</link>
		<dc:creator>Heath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 19:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-736</guid>
		<description>It is clear that Brad is not very informed on Darwin and his ideas. Brad states that Darwin was &quot;a scientist who formulated the theory that life evolved by chance&quot;. He is completely wrong on this idea. Natural selection is not a random process, rather it is a deterministic process based on the current environmental conditions. Some mechanisms of evolution are random, like genetic drift and mutation, but other processes are not random like natural selection and non-random mating (inbreeding).

Before quoting from various church leaders occurs, it would be well for Brad and others to search for the &quot;evolution packet&quot; on BYU search page. This packet is the only approved official position of the church concerning this subject.

Brad may be disheartened to learn that Evolution is the capstone course required by most biology degrees at BYU. So either the Church feels that it&#039;s OK to teach this subject again and again, or the Biology department is simple filled with &quot;men professing to be men of intelligence and possessing scientific knowledge and wisdom&quot;. As for me, I earned both BS and PhD from BYU in Biology, I testify that the professors there ARE men of intelligence and possess scientific knowledge and wisdom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is clear that Brad is not very informed on Darwin and his ideas. Brad states that Darwin was &#8220;a scientist who formulated the theory that life evolved by chance&#8221;. He is completely wrong on this idea. Natural selection is not a random process, rather it is a deterministic process based on the current environmental conditions. Some mechanisms of evolution are random, like genetic drift and mutation, but other processes are not random like natural selection and non-random mating (inbreeding).</p>
<p>Before quoting from various church leaders occurs, it would be well for Brad and others to search for the &#8220;evolution packet&#8221; on BYU search page. This packet is the only approved official position of the church concerning this subject.</p>
<p>Brad may be disheartened to learn that Evolution is the capstone course required by most biology degrees at BYU. So either the Church feels that it&#8217;s OK to teach this subject again and again, or the Biology department is simple filled with &#8220;men professing to be men of intelligence and possessing scientific knowledge and wisdom&#8221;. As for me, I earned both BS and PhD from BYU in Biology, I testify that the professors there ARE men of intelligence and possess scientific knowledge and wisdom.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-731</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-731</guid>
		<description>What is wrong with marrying the concepts of Darwin evolution and Darwin?  We can not say for certainty that is was NOT God&#039;s intent to place the seeds of life on the planet and then evolve animals and even humans out of these seeds.  By &quot;seeds of life&quot; I mean the primordial ooze or what have you.  Why couldn&#039;t all life evolve from some basic DNA that God put on the earth after its creation.  It is stated in Genesis of course that God created man but it doesn&#039;t say exactly how he created man. 

Why do we have to rule out the possibility God created man by evolving him into his own image? I don&#039;t think we have to. Besides there&#039;s too much evidence in biological evolution to dismiss it.  Science and religion, if you so choose, can be compatible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is wrong with marrying the concepts of Darwin evolution and Darwin?  We can not say for certainty that is was NOT God&#8217;s intent to place the seeds of life on the planet and then evolve animals and even humans out of these seeds.  By &#8220;seeds of life&#8221; I mean the primordial ooze or what have you.  Why couldn&#8217;t all life evolve from some basic DNA that God put on the earth after its creation.  It is stated in Genesis of course that God created man but it doesn&#8217;t say exactly how he created man. </p>
<p>Why do we have to rule out the possibility God created man by evolving him into his own image? I don&#8217;t think we have to. Besides there&#8217;s too much evidence in biological evolution to dismiss it.  Science and religion, if you so choose, can be compatible.</p>
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		<title>By: Jade</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>Jade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-730</guid>
		<description>I am glad the library is acknowledging the birthday of Charles Darwin as the significant historical event it is. No matter what your beliefs on evolution, there is no doubt that Darwin has had an impact on the world, especially concerning science. Just because he is wrong about man being descended from monkeys doesn&#039;t mean all of his theories on natural selection and heredity are false. It would be narrow-minded to refuse to join in the international conversation about Darwin just because we disagree with some of his ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad the library is acknowledging the birthday of Charles Darwin as the significant historical event it is. No matter what your beliefs on evolution, there is no doubt that Darwin has had an impact on the world, especially concerning science. Just because he is wrong about man being descended from monkeys doesn&#8217;t mean all of his theories on natural selection and heredity are false. It would be narrow-minded to refuse to join in the international conversation about Darwin just because we disagree with some of his ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: news</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-727</link>
		<dc:creator>news</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-727</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment. For the record last year the blog did mention Hitler and it was not to honor him. He is part of world history and there are thousands of items in our collections that have a connection to World War II and are therefore linked to Hitler. 

This highlights one of the challenges faced by libraries. Libraries need to contain a wide variety of materials to serve their patrons. When libraries collect books and other materials on topics we are not endorsing the philosophies of authors. For example, our library has books by another significant world figure, Mao Zedong, but we are not promoting communism. On a lighter note we have books on the Olympic sport of curling, yet we are not promoting ice sports. And we even have books on distilleries but no one thinks we promote drinking.  This year Darwin is in the news and the library is ready for researchers who will be looking at the role Darwin played in history. Next year it is likely that some patrons will be interested in Edgar Allen Poe and we will help people find materials in our collection on him and his works. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment. For the record last year the blog did mention Hitler and it was not to honor him. He is part of world history and there are thousands of items in our collections that have a connection to World War II and are therefore linked to Hitler. </p>
<p>This highlights one of the challenges faced by libraries. Libraries need to contain a wide variety of materials to serve their patrons. When libraries collect books and other materials on topics we are not endorsing the philosophies of authors. For example, our library has books by another significant world figure, Mao Zedong, but we are not promoting communism. On a lighter note we have books on the Olympic sport of curling, yet we are not promoting ice sports. And we even have books on distilleries but no one thinks we promote drinking.  This year Darwin is in the news and the library is ready for researchers who will be looking at the role Darwin played in history. Next year it is likely that some patrons will be interested in Edgar Allen Poe and we will help people find materials in our collection on him and his works.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe R</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-726</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-726</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad the library has an extensive collection of Victorian material, including works by and about Darwin. It is possible, and even important, to study his work without believing or granting his dubious philosophy. 

But it is a little disingenuous to say he isn&#039;t honored by a blog entry. I doubt we would see a similar blog entry about Hitler or others of his kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad the library has an extensive collection of Victorian material, including works by and about Darwin. It is possible, and even important, to study his work without believing or granting his dubious philosophy. </p>
<p>But it is a little disingenuous to say he isn&#8217;t honored by a blog entry. I doubt we would see a similar blog entry about Hitler or others of his kind.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: News</title>
		<link>http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/2009/01/16/darwin-turns-200/comment-page-1/#comment-725</link>
		<dc:creator>News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lib.byu.edu/sites/news/?p=133#comment-725</guid>
		<description>Good news. The library is working on an exhibit to honor the birth of Abraham Lincoln and we hope everyone will visit it. We&#039;ll post a news release when it is ready.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good news. The library is working on an exhibit to honor the birth of Abraham Lincoln and we hope everyone will visit it. We&#8217;ll post a news release when it is ready.</p>
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